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A friend of mine recently offered a challenge to my view of hell after hearing the same challenge used by Greg Laurie.  Essentially, because the same word “eternal” is used to describe the fate of both the sheep and the goats of Matthew 25:46, could it not be argued that the same duration is in mind for both?  Would it not be natural to assume that this is what is intended by Jesus in this passage?

I would argue that it is not in fact the best way to understand Jesus’ words here.  I present here the explanation I offered my friend.   Forgive whatever typos and misspellings I failed to correct before posting.  First, the question:

I was listening to Greg Laurie on the way to work. He said the reason he believes in an eternal Hell is because the same word is used to describe heaven. He didn’t reference any verses, but it got me thinking…would it be possible to use the same principles of interpretation to challenge the traditional view of heaven along with the traditional view of hell?

And my response:

I don’t think so. Here’s the difference: eternal on the heaven side is describing life – a state of existence, implying a conscious being to experience it. On the opposite end, we don’t have a single, explicit statement in Scripture that links Eternal + Torment. Anywhere. Eternal is used to describe a couple things: punishment (Matt. 25:46)and  fire (Matt. 18:8), but never to describe the experience of torment.

I think one of the best cases is made considering the “state of being” nouns: destrucTION vs. destroying, punishMENT vs. punishING, etc. The same can be said of the salvaTION, redempTION, justificaTION and judgMENT. If we are to understand eternal punishment as a continual, ongoing process, will we demand the same thing of an eternal salvation? Are we forever being saved or is that a state of being conditioned upon a past decision and accomplished by a past work of Christ?

Also, consider this argument I just ran across in a recent debate: Is God a just God? So is He going to make sure justice is accomplished? But in the traditional view, He never really GETS justice because He’s always just chasing after it by continuing the torment of the damned. A million years into the bliss of heaven, God will be no closer to exacting true justice than He was on the day of judgment. At least in our limited understanding of justice and using our limited system of justice as a comparison, justice is never served until the sentence given has been finally satisfied. That’s not possible in the eternal hell argument, but I admit this argument has limited merit since it draws on imprecise parallels.

Ask Mr. Laurie or anyone else to find one explicit statement where the doctrine of eternal conscious torment is taught and they will only ever give you a pile of “destruction” verses wherein they’ve completely redefined destruction to mean eternal life, but in a morbid, wretched sense. The best of the best have been asked; the best of the best have failed to deliver.

Listen to any of the last four Theopologetics podcasts and see for yourself how weak the answers are in either dialog (episodes 62 and 63) or debate (episodes 64 and 65). I think you’d be thoroughly unimpressed with the traditionalist answers.

We die, we’re buried, we wait, we’re resurrected, we’re judged. Some will experience everlasting life (which is explicit and clear) and others will go on to the second death in the lake of fire where they will be consumed. The fire is eternal because it issues forth from the only eternal source. It needs no fuel and requires no kindling. It certainly isn’t dependent (as traditionalists say) on bodies for fuel!

Sorry about that response. I know you only asked about the parallel limiting the duration of heaven based on the duration of hell, but I believe the answer lies in a proper understanding of the fate of each of those groups consigned to their respective destinations. Before we talk duration, what is the PURPOSE? In heaven it is to restore us to what we were intended to be – eternal and in fellowship with God, but forfeit in the garden. In hell God has reserved a spot to meet out justice on the finally impenitent…where their destruction will last forever and will never be reversed. (exit, stage left: any possibility of universalism being true). But there I go again getting started all over.

So now, I ask you the reader to consider the challenge AND the answer.  I promise to go where the Biblical evidence leads and to take at face value, words that the context does not demand we redefine.  I’d simply ask you to do the same.  And as always, I await and hope for your thoughtful remarks.  Blessings on you as you pursue the truth.

First let me say that I DID read the book so I guess that at least grants me discussion rights.  The reason I start with that declaration is that in a recent video I saw linked to on Facebook (see below), Rob Bell, after stating a number of things he believes – heaven and hell being two of them – closes with an empahtically stated “and I also believe its best to only discuss books you’ve actually read.”  That challenge puzzles me.  What I’ve mentioned on my own Facebook account after having read the book is that I was not shocked to hear his positions on things “doctrinally.”  What surprised (and disappointed) me was the incredibly lacking defense of those beliefs.  So reading the book may warrant you some social rights to talk about it, but if you think reading it will give you any clearer a picture of how Rob Bell comes to the conclusions he reaches, good luck.

Anyway, my intention is not to review the book.   Joe will likely be tackling that soon enough so I’ll move out of the way and let him take care of that.  For now I thought it might be good to link to several good reviews of the book that are already out there as well as some audio/video resources that are also freely available to you.  Let me close this short post with this caution – If you like Rob Bell’s views on heaven and hell and think he’s on to something…fine.  Read his book, look up the passages he cites and consider his interpretation of those texts.  BUT, in addition to doing that, consider the vast numbers of those (actual scholars) who take issue with his interpretation and give them an ear as well.  Truth is not ours to mold or shape to our liking, but to pursue as objectively as humanly possible.

Written Reviews

Tim Challies

Kevin DeYoung (long) PDF Copy

Roger E. Olson

Timothy C. Tennent (President of Asbury Theological Series) four-part review

Audio/Video

Dr. Michael Brown Responds

James White Responds on Youtube

A friend and I were recently discussing an alarming statistic that I’ve heard from too many sources and too many times to disregard as some baseless or sensationalist stat.  It generally reads along these lines: “75-80% of Christian youth will walk away from/lose their faith in their first year of college.”

Having examined my faith in the past for weaknesses was what caused me to launch Full-Proof Ministries as a venue of support to others who were seeking the truth.  Obviously, if the outcome was Full-Proof Ministries, you already know the conclsuion of my dig.  My search for truth more than substantiated my once blind faith so overwhelmingly, I could not believe I had not been introduced to apologetics earlier in my life.  The fact is, I cannot believe how many people accept blindly the things that need not be accepted blindly!  Hebrews 11:1, as we’ve said in earlier posts does not require us to take a blind leap.  Let’s use the Biblical definition of faith:  The substance of things hoped for and the conviction, or evidence of things not seen.” [emphasis mine]  Sure, without faith, it is impossible to please Him (Hebrews 11:6), but that is a far cry from asking us to accept things blindly.  God has given us so much more sure a foundation than that!

This post is a plea to parents: Don’t accept the stats as the status quo any longer.  It is entirely unacceptable that we have raised our children to have such a loose grasp on their faith – what it is and why it is – that it has slipped from their grip at the first real opposition to it.  The problem, I believe, is two-fold.  First, parents are ignorant themselves of the answers to some of the tougher questions.  It’s something that they either don’t need because they’re faith feels sure or they’ve never been challenged by a skeptic so they’ve never had any reason to look into it.  So the first problem is ignorance.  The second problem, and even more egregious, is laziness.  Some parents are aware of the challenges to their faith, but use “faith” as the cover-all answer to any question that could possibly arise.  They then pass this on to their kids as the best way to defend their beliefs.  This is quite honestly the WORST way to answer the questions.  ”I don’t know” or “I don’t fully understand myself” would be far better choices.  But they should only be temporary answers until the hard work of reading and research yields better answers.  Ignorance and Laziness are not only embarrassing reasons for our children to be abandoning their faith, they are both treatable!  We don’t have to accept them!  This problem is analogous to perhaps a quack doctor who knows there is a cure for an ailing child, but because it would take any effort on his part, he chooses to let this otherwise treatable condition turn terminal….all the while, the answer is in a book just across the room.   What parent would stand for that???  Yet we are no more careful with the spiritual condition of our children?  How can this be?

We have go to begin the treatment process.  Obviously before something can be treated it has to be recognized.  I hope this post has helped you with the recognition part.  It may not be easy, but it is necessary to begin treatment…NOW.  It is time to stem the tide of atheism that is consuming our children at an alarming rate.  I know you wouldn’t allow your child to be so mistreated by a doctor as to let them die of something you knew was curable. Well, it’s time to act.  Parents, you are the doctor in the analogy.  You can allow your children to get sicker and sicker until it’s beyond your control to treat and they walk away from their faith forever.  Or you could “walk across the room” and find the answer.  Maybe you don’t feel comfortable dealing with some of the questions that are raised.  Maybe you feel like you, too, might be susceptible to abandoning your faith if you were to examine it more closely.  If that’s the case, then find some third party that could help – a pastor, teacher, elder – that has experience with these issues.  If you don’t have those resources available to you or would be uncomfortable in seeking their help, please contact Full-Proof and allow us to help you and/or your child who is struggling to hold on to their faith.  Whatever you do, inaction is the only wrong action.  Your child’s eternal destiny is at stake.

Joe and I have been talking a lot lately about the importance of reading sections of Scripture (paragraphs or more) instead of single verses – or even multiple verses that are still ripped from their larger context.  This post will aim to demonstrate a real-world example of why not to read just a verse (or in this case, even 3 verses.)

Ephesians 5:22-24 says:

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

It was perhaps this very passage that sparked a conversation at work a couple weeks ago about how archaic the Biblical model for marriage and family is.  The individual referencing this Biblical concept was uneasy with wives being told to be submissive to their husbands in a seemingly subordinate role.  With todays emphasis on equality, it is no wonder that their feathers were a bit ruffled at the thought of it.  Would God really ask that women submit themselves to their husbands as some sort of “lesser” being?

And thus we are introduced to one example of the importance of reading larger sections of Scripture.  [Enter, stage right: CONTEXT]  If divorced from the rest of the passage, these verses seem to be saying that women are subordinate and on an unequal playing field.  However, if we keep reading, we find this not to be the message at all and that the Scriptural mandate for husbands is even stronger.

Ephesians 5:25-29 says:

Husbands are commanded to love their wives…and not just with some Hallmark holiday sort of love, but with the type of love that drove Christ to willingly lay down His life for His Church.  One of the truths that is often neglected and can only be inferred here – that Christ was not only willing to give His life up in death for His Church, but gave Himself in life for His Church.  My father drove this principle home to me several years ago when I was attempting to understand the kind of love that would cause someone to be willing to die for another.  I was floored that Christ would die for such an unworthy world of people.  My father told me what was even more amazing is that He came here to live for us.  Before He could be a perfect sacrifice, He had to live the perfect life…for us!  His entire existence in human form was dedicated to redeeming sinners and presenting His Church as holy and blameless.  So, husbands – we are not only to be willing to die for our wives as Christ did for the church, but also to live for our wives, cherishing them as Christ did the Church.  All of a sudden, submitting to one’s husband doesn’t seem all that bad!  Not if the husband you’re submitting to is committed to the responsibility laid out in this passage anyway!

Just as you would never dream of opening a letter from a dear friend and reading only one line of it, we ought not treat God’s Word with that sort of disrespect.  Obviously we cannot hope to read the whole thing in one sitting, but we need to understand the sections we do have time to read in light of their greater context.  This will keep us from gross misunderstandings of the bits and pieces we come across in our daily readings and will give us a greater appreciation for the continuity and uniformity of the larger message of the Bible.

I had a big talk from my heart this week with the Tuesday night group that meets at my house. One of the things I emphasized with them was to not be afraid to ask themselves tough questions. This is something that I’ve learned to do in the last decade.

There is nothing to fear from tough questions. Let me give an example:

“Am I legalistic or being legalistic about something(s)?”

Have you ever run into a Christian that claims they are legalistic? You know, I never have – not once. I am never legalistic (at least that is what I think) but I can always point to someone or some church that is.

You know what I also tend to see myself and many, if not most, others do? If the question is presented, or the point is suggested, that we are legalistic, then we quickly dismiss it.

“No, I’m definitely not legalistic.”

Why are we so quick to dismiss the idea? Probably because of pride. I don’t want to admit that I’m legalistic about anything.

“The Independent Baptists down the street, now they are legalistic. Me? No, I’m not. They only allow the King James and their women must wear skirts.”

I’ve heard it said that most people in prisons don’t think they’re that bad. They can always point to someone else who is worse. Now, I’ve never done prison ministry and I’ve not interacted with prison inmates, but that’s the pattern I see with myself. Are you prone to be like that? Do you claim instantly that you are not legalistic because you can point to others who are?

Here’s my key question for today –

What do you have to lose by facing the tough questions?

Don’t quickly dismiss the questions. Take the time to ponder them.

What if I am not legalistic? Then I have no reason to fear pondering the question. I can examine it and conclude, “you know what — I honestly don’t think I struggle with this.”

But what if I am legalistic? Then don’t I need to ponder that question? How can I ever escape it if I never face the possibility head on that I might be legalistic?

Here’s another question to think about. If legalism is only a problem with a few extreme fundamentalist churches, then why did God address it so much in the New Testament? I think he addressed it so much because I think that most of us struggle with it more than we think we do or are willing to admit. I can easily say I’m not legalistic because I don’t add works to salvation. A lot of Christians have that simple of a definition. But legalism isn’t only about justification, we can also be legalistic about our sanctification.

And that’s where I think most Christians can fall into the trap of legalism. That’s what the book of Galatians deals with: not justification legalism, but sanctification legalism.

So face the questions head on. Don’t quickly dismiss them. You can only harm yourself in doing so.

A Good friend of mine is fond of saying, “Never read a Bible verse.[i]”  Now, this friend, also being a good Christian and solid student of God’s Word, certainly doesn’t mean not to ever read even one verse, but not to read only one verse.  He says this primarily in reference to protecting the greater context from which that verse is pulled from being lost.  Often, if we just read one verse, we are at risk of twisting that verse into whatever clever thing we would like for it to say, rather than accepting the counsel of God’s Word as it was intended to be understood.  The end result of clipping individual verses is at best a goofy interpretation and at worst the start of a new cult!  You would never dream of receiving a letter in the mail from a friend and only choosing one line out of the middle of it to read, would you?  You would miss the larger message that was intended if you did so.  Let’s not do that to God’s Word.

Recently on Facebook, I challenged my friends and family to visit a website that features over 60 reading plans, catering to all types of readers – from the heavy readers who want to read the Bible multiple times in a year, to the devotional reader who is looking for some motivation/inspiration for the day.  The important thing is that you find a plan that you’ll be faithful to continue in every day.  It won’t do you any good to try to bite off more than you can chew right off the bat – that just usually ends in disappointment. As soon as the New Year motivation has worn off, you’ll find yourself several days behind and will either give up altogether or find your Bible-reading a burden, rather than a blessing.  Find a plan based on the amount of time you know you can and WILL dedicate yourself to every day and get started!  It’s only the 6^th of January so it’s not too late to get started and still finish a plan by the end of the year.

So, to pull this all together:  Don’t read [just] a verse for a couple reasons.  First of all, we don’t want to be guilty of mishandling or misreading God’s Word.  He only wrote one book so we want to get it right!  Secondly, God deserves more of our time and dedication than to just read a snippet here or a snippet there.  Regular, daily reading for our spiritual life is like water and sunlight to a plant.  We simply can’t continue to grow without it!  Finally, the more you read and learn, the more you’ll find yourself wanting to continue to read and learn.  The hardest part of any discipline or subject is orientation.  Once you get the main things figured out, the rest gets that much easier.  So quit reading this blog article and grab your Bible!

The city of Smyrna (its Church is addressed in Revelation 2:8-11) was, in many ways, like Ephesus.  They were wealthy and influential enough to compete with Ephesus and Pergamum for the title “First in Asia,” and, as William Barclay notes, if it were “inevitable that Ephesus should come first in the list of the seven churches, it was but natural that Smyrna its great rival should second.”  In addition to its wealth and influence, Smyrna was Asia’s most beautiful city, so much so that men would one day call her the Ornament of Asia.  But outward appearance and earthly influence is about where the similarities end.  Before discussing the letter to the church at Smyrna in the above referenced passage, some background information on the city itself is in order.

The city of Smyrna was founded around the 11th century BC by one of the four ancient Greek tribes known as the Aeolians. The city was not long under the control of the Aeolians when another Greek tribe, the Ionians, took her over. As an Ionian city, Smyrna thrived, particularly from its prominent location along major trade routes. But eventually, Ionian Smyrna met opposition from Lydia. Though they were able to withstand the attacks of Gyges , they did not fare as well against Alyattes II , who was later able to conquer and sack the city. Consequently, Smyrna lost its political identity, but did not completely cease to exist.  As evidenced by both an inscription and a fragment of the 4^th century, but their greatness was now a thing of the past. Smyrna would enter into a period of mere existence (a sort of life-through-death experience) until Alexander the Great (356–323 BC) purposed to rebuild the city. Ultimately it would not be Alexander, but his successors who would actually carry out this task. Antigonus (316—301 BC) and Lysimachus (301 BC—281 BC) bore this responsibility and receive credit not only for Smyrna’s rebuilding, but also her expansion and fortification. Hellenistic (Greek) control of Smyrna lasted until about 197 BC when ties were cut with Pergamum in favor of seeking alliance with Rome. To accomplish this alliance, Smyrna created the cult of Rome, which was affective enough that by 195 BC, deification of Rome had begun, starting with the goddess Roma . Sixty years later, Smyrna would come under complete control of Rome as the greater region became the Roman Province of Asia, with Pergamum as its capital.

The structure of the letter again follows that typical structure we have outlined in the two previous posts, with only slight deviation:

1. A Title for the Risen Christ

2. Praise of the Church

3. Rebuke / Criticism of the Church

4. Solution to the Problem Faced by the Church

5. Penalty for Disobedience

6. A Promise for those who overcome

7. A General Admonition

In this letter, we find one important distinction – numbers three and five are strangely absent.  The Risen Christ offered the church at Smyrna no rebuke and made no threats against them should they disregard His admonition!  What an incredible thing to be true of a church!

As the letter opens, Christ refers to Himself as the First and the Last, Who died and came to life. The first portion of this title – The First and the Last – is important for a couple of reasons, both of which pertain not only to the particular church being addressed, but to the entire body of Christ.  The reason is this:  it speaks to the very first doctrine that is attacked by cults and false teachers – the deity of Christ.  Allow me to explain the doctrine’s relevance here.  This “First and Last” title has been used once already in the Apocalypse.  Flip back in your Bible, or simply mouse over this reference to Revelation 1:17-18.  We find the exact same title being used here in chapter two.  The problem this creates for those who would deny the deity of Christ is that the first reference is to God the Father, while the title here is used to describe the Son.  Be sure to grasp the full weight of that connection – Jesus Christ is using the very same language to describe His eternality that is used of the Father.  If in fact Christ was only a creation of the Father, then He would certainly not be co-eternal with the Father.  The pronouncement here, however, claims just that for the Son, dealing a fatal blow to the false notion that Christ was anything less than divine.

The second application of this title is that it speaks to the supremacy of the Risen Christ over earthly circumstances – even the most severe of earthly circumstances.  This is a principal that can be seen in the other letters as well.  Persecuted and struggling churches are exhorted to look beyond their circumstances to the greater spiritual truth that God has been and still is sovereign even in those troubling times.  In Smyrna’s case, it had to do with a specific, short-term, but severe persecution.  Even the Smyrnian church was to look beyond their circumstances and recognize Jesus as the First and Last.

The second title used to describe the Risen Christ is the One who died and came to life.  The meaning of this phrase might be more literally expressed as the One who “lived through death.”  Christ was the sacrifice, depicted in Hebrews, to end all sacrifices.  He was to die and be buried, but not without the expectation of a subsequent resurrection - predicted before his crucifixion and accomplished just three days later.  Though the body Jesus inhabited truly died, the Son of God remained, through that physical death.  He literally lived through death.

We now transition to the praise portion of the letter to Smyrna and one thing we are immediately struck with is how few words are actually spent to do so. This is certainly not to indicate that there is little good to be said.  Rather, it is the complete absence of any criticism of the church which speaks her loudest and clearest praise.  Christ contrasts (vv. 9) their earthly poverty and tribulation with their spiritual wealth.  Though they had little of this world’s goods, they were rich in the things that mattered.  All too often the opposite state of affairs exists in churches today.

The Smyrnian church was encouraged not to fear what they were about to suffer at the hands of the “Synagogue of Satan” – those who called themselves Jews, but were only so outwardly.  Being exhorted not to fear, however, was a clear implication that what was about to happen was a very fearful thing.  Indeed, they were about to be “thrown into prison,” which was almost certainly just a precursor to their impending execution.  Verse ten makes this very clear as Christ exhorts them to be faithful unto death, the highest earthly price one could be asked to pay.

This earthly suffering was not without its heavenly reward, however.  The Risen Christ offers to those faithful ones a crown of life.  As is often the case with the seven letters, we see again the physical contrasted with and superseded by the spiritual.  An earthly life stands to be lost while a heavenly (and far superior) life stands to be gained.  The only way for the Smyrnian church to overcome in their time of testing was to shift their focus from the temporary here and now to the eternal prize to be won – the crown of life promised in verse ten.

Our struggles in the modern, western church pale in comparison to those of the Smyrnians.  They had their lives threatened; we at most have our popularity threatened.  They persevered through slander and ridicule; we often compromise when our image is at stake.  They were physically poor, but spiritually rich; we have much of the world’s wealth, but have failed to store up treasures in heaven.  It’s hard to truly grasp the gravity of the Smyrnian call to stand strong when we can only imagine what it would be like to face the difficulties they faced.  But the call is the same nonetheless both for individual Christians today and the congregations we belong to.

So what will it be?  Will you run when the going gets tough?  Will you cave when the pressure is on?  Will you placate and politic when it’s unpopular or even dangerous to persevere? When you’re called to put everything on the line for Christ….will you be Standing with Smyrna?

Feel Free to use the Resources below for personal study or teaching on the Book of Revelation:
Blank Chart for filling out the attributes of the 7 churches
Same Chart with Answers
Map of the seven churches of Asia
Dr. Thomas Constable’s Commentary on Revelation
Dr. Bob Utley’s Commentary on Revelation